Author Topic: OT: Rant  (Read 13793 times)

stanl

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OT: Rant
« on: July 29, 2015, 10:53:02 am »
My Surface Pro had Windows 10 update reserved. This morning it was ready. Made sure it was in my docking station and powered. Accepted the agreement and off it went.... right up to configuring windows 37% ... do not power off... etc   and has been like that for 5 hours.  I had been pretty faithful through Win 8.1 - firmware updates and all regular updates.  [the rest of my thoughts I cannot print].

td

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2015, 11:11:20 am »
MSFT has updated the Release to Manufacturing (RTM) version of Windows 10 three times in the last week.  I guess they have redefined the meaning of RTM.   Testing software against a moving target is not the most productive activitity.
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kdmoyers

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2015, 11:49:09 am »
Stan -- you must be steaming -- I would be.  Thanks for the warning.  Let us know what happens!
-K
The mind is everything; What you think, you become.

td

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2015, 01:39:48 pm »
A warning and a good reminder to make a backup image and a bootable recover disk before allowing the update to proceed. 
"No one who sees a peregrine falcon fly can ever forget the beauty and thrill of that flight."
  - Dr. Tom Cade

kdmoyers

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2015, 04:28:12 am »
a bootable recover disk

ooh - good point.  It's been so long since I made one of those for home, I'm not sure I can put my hands on it.
The mind is everything; What you think, you become.

stanl

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2015, 04:28:27 am »
A warning and a good reminder to make a backup image and a bootable recover disk before allowing the update to proceed.

Of course, and got back to my 8.1 w/out issue. Re-upgraded to 10 last night. Took 3 hours. Had to do some fiddling after that; Cortana is kind of a joke - asked it "how much memory do I have?" and it opened Bing to Alzheimers...

10 also runs a lot slower than 8. Working with the pen is less precise than with 8. The surface pro is more like an Apple Watch - nice to show off, but really not that functional. All my developer stuff is still on my reliable HP Pavilion with Win7.

Oh, and just discovered my favorites didn't update in Edge.

stanl

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2015, 04:31:54 am »
a bootable recover disk

ooh - good point.  It's been so long since I made one of those for home, I'm not sure I can put my hands on it.

I found a freeware product called AOMEI that worked great with 8.1 and a USB. It can create images or backups

http://www.aomeitech.com/

kdmoyers

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2015, 04:35:20 am »
Stan- quick question
Did the win10 thing offer the option of a complete fresh install? 
My old laptop is kinda slow as it is, I don't want any cruft from my old win7 install left in there.
Thanks!
-K
The mind is everything; What you think, you become.

DAG_P6

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2015, 06:18:42 am »
Everything on the subject that I have read, by the likes of Woody Leonhard, suggests that you get your Windows 7 installation squeaky clean before you upgrade. I don't plan to upgrade my Win 7 machine until at least October.
David A. Gray
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stanl

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2015, 07:33:02 am »
Stan- quick question
Did the win10 thing offer the option of a complete fresh install? 
My old laptop is kinda slow as it is, I don't want any cruft from my old win7 install left in there.
Thanks!
-K

I upgraded from a Surface Pro, gonna wait on Win7.  The thing I had to watch out for was the "Send Your Wi-Fi password to your contacts?"

JTaylor

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2015, 09:07:42 pm »
Well, upgraded my small laptop I use for travel when I don't need to do any serious work.   The bootup does take A LOT longer...probably about 4-5 times as long to get to my desktop.   The only other annoying thing I have found so far is my mouse cursor jumps away from things when I try to click on them.  Almost like someone is pranking me.  VERY annoying.  I set the No Delay on the mouse settings and it helps a bit.   Was taking 5-6 clicks just to successfully click on something.  Now a couple, give or take.  Not too bad with other applications...the behavior is the worst with the Windows stuff: i.e. Desktop, Control Panel, Start Menu, etc.    Startup/Settings menu layout isn't too bad.  Far better than the nonsense with Win8 at least.  Not anywhere as practical as Win7 though.

It appears that MSXML and such things still work.  The webbrowser control is still there along with IE 11.  The few IE automation tasks I have tried so far still work.  Haven't done A LOT with my WinBatch apps on it yet but tried the one that had me REALLY concerned.  Not sure how different a system would be with a fresh install rather than the upgrade though.  Hopefully all that stuff is still there.   Breathing a bit easier now.


Jim

JTaylor

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2015, 09:08:19 pm »
I didn't see the "Send your Wi-Fi passwords" option.  Hope I didn't do that.

Jim

stanl

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2015, 03:24:17 am »
Jim;

so InternetExplorer.Application still brings up IE11, not Edge?

JTaylor

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2015, 06:41:30 am »
Yes.  Still brings up IE.   

To be fair.  My startup time is back to what it was with Win8 and possibly a bit faster...so not sure what was happening yesterday.


Jim

td

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2015, 07:09:23 am »
    Observations on Windows 10:

    • Edge is reportedly a complete rewrite and is still missing some functionality normally associated with modern Web browsers of the last few years.  The first 'Service Release' for Windows 10 which is suppose to be available next month is reported to add some of the missing functionality.   Don't know if MSFT has any plans to create IE style COM Automation server interfaces specificity for Edge.
    • Edge supposedly has the fastest javascript VM of any browser.  Outside of that it is more or less just another iteration of the trendy dumbed-down-browser.
    • Microsoft does offer a 'Media Creation Tool' that can be downloaded and used to create an ISO image for installing Windows 10 on another computer from a DVD.  It is supposed to support a clean installation but does require a product key for doing so. Haven't used it yet, since we already have ISOs.
    • Mouse and video drivers have been one source of problems on Windows 10.  The mouse driver issue was concerning because we found it while regression testing WIL mouse related functions.  We were much relieved to find the it wasn't a WinBatch problem but a Windows driver problem.   However, it is something to keep in mind.
"No one who sees a peregrine falcon fly can ever forget the beauty and thrill of that flight."
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stanl

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2015, 10:14:56 am »
I didn't see the "Send your Wi-Fi passwords" option.  Hope I didn't do that.

Jim

It is set by default. Need to go into Networking \ manage WiFi and uncheck all boxes. Other suggestions are to rename your SSID to include _optout  and/or _unmap as supposedly Google will index the password.

td

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2015, 10:38:05 am »
If you have any questions about  why MSFT is giving Windows 10 away, one reason is easy enough to figure out.  If during installation you receive a prompt to use 'Express Setttings', click on the almost invisible 'Custom Settings' link instead.  Read the text associated with each setting carefully.
"No one who sees a peregrine falcon fly can ever forget the beauty and thrill of that flight."
  - Dr. Tom Cade

snowsnowsnow

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2015, 10:40:00 am »
Windows 10 spyware edition
Date: Fri Jul 31 09:20:02 MDT 2015
Lines: 11

"Windows 10 is under attack over default settings which users say
compromise their privacy, just days after the operating systemâ^@^Ys
successful launch saw more than 14 million installs in the first 24 hours.

Hundreds of commenters on sites such as Hacker News and Reddit have
criticised default settings that send personal information to Microsoft,
use bandwidth to upload data to other computers running the operating
system, share Wi-Fi passwords with online friends and remove the ability
to opt out of security updates."

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/31/windows-10-microsoft-faces-criticism-ov
er-privacy-default-settings

JTaylor

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2015, 10:49:23 am »
Yes.  Meant to mention that.   Avoid Express Settings.  I think I turned off everything but one thing.

Jim

If you have any questions about  why MSFT is giving Windows 10 away, one reason is easy enough to figure out.  If during installation you receive a prompt to use 'Express Setttings', click on the almost invisible 'Custom Settings' link instead.  Read the text associated with each setting carefully.

snowsnowsnow

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2015, 10:57:51 am »
If you have any questions about  why MSFT is giving Windows 10 away, one reason is easy enough to figure out.  If during installation you receive a prompt to use 'Express Setttings', click on the almost invisible 'Custom Settings' link instead.  Read the text associated with each setting carefully.

Essentially, MS has become the KMart of OS distributors.  Remember in the old days, KMart (yes, Kmart!) was giving away free Internet access (Yes, as a "Blue Light Special"!).  In return for which, of course, once the thing was installed on your machine, they got to bombard you with ads and steal all your data/information.  But the fact was, that for many people, it was still a good deal.

td

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2015, 11:58:04 am »

Essentially, MS has become the KMart of OS distributors.  Remember in the old days, KMart (yes, Kmart!) was giving away free Internet access (Yes, as a "Blue Light Special"!).  In return for which, of course, once the thing was installed on your machine, they got to bombard you with ads and steal all your data/information.  But the fact was, that for many people, it was still a good deal.

I think you may be missing the point. Whether or not you chose to allow MSFT to track you in a myriad ways is just that, your choice.  But you wont or can't make a choice unless you realize why you might want to make one or that you even know that you have one to make.   

And MSFT is certainly not doing anything that the other tech giants aren't already doing in this area.  They're just playing catchup. Their traditional revenue streams are slowly diminishing so that are looking for fresh additions to their newer and more successful money makers.   
   
"No one who sees a peregrine falcon fly can ever forget the beauty and thrill of that flight."
  - Dr. Tom Cade

snowsnowsnow

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2015, 12:55:49 pm »
I don't think we disagree about anything.  I fail to see why you think I might be missing any point.

And, yeah, I never believed the "We make all our money on advertising - that's how we can afford to give you all these wonderful services for free" model anyway.  I knew "they" were data-mining all along.

And, yes, by "they", I mean all the tech giants.  Google, of course, leading the way...

td

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2015, 01:07:34 pm »
I don't think we disagree about anything.  I fail to see why you think I might be missing any point.

OK, then I missed the point. Not the first time nor likely the last.
"No one who sees a peregrine falcon fly can ever forget the beauty and thrill of that flight."
  - Dr. Tom Cade

nrr

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2015, 04:36:54 am »
I upgraded my Surface Pro 3 without any install problems and yes, I did select 'Custom' and unchecked many of the default settings.  One warning though ... I have to use the F5 Networks Big-IP VPN client to access my main customer site but there's no W10 version available.  Fortunately I still have my laptop.
 

stanl

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Re: OT: Rant
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2015, 07:32:45 am »
I upgraded my Surface Pro 3 without any install problems and yes, I did select 'Custom' and unchecked many of the default settings.  One warning though ... I have to use the F5 Networks Big-IP VPN client to access my main customer site but there's no W10 version available.  Fortunately I still have my laptop.

To be honest, out of frustration I selected express although I knew about the issues and just modified my settings once 10 was installed. I was also having big problems with the docking station. Sometimes the USB 2.0 ports would not function, I could only use a wireless mouse if attached to the actual surface... had been going through those issues for the previous month, as before that all worked fine. It appears to be something in the last 8.1 firmware update I performed.

But, as of today Windows 10 is working well. I have a mouse, external DVD and two External USB drivers as well as a 64 gig SD and all are recognized. I even removed the windows.old folder from the SSD. The 'rant' is officially over.